Great article calling out licensing issues

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Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby EgoMagickian on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:39 pm

Love this piece on "Challening Sacred Cows", including the "cash cows" of licensure and continuing ed: http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/a ... p?id=14495
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Re: Great article

Postby holley on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:18 pm

Thanks for posting this article, it's a gem.
While a boon to practitioners, there are vested interests that have lots to lose if licensing & continuing Ed requirements are dropped. Do we have sufficient oomph to challenge these interests? I'm willing to join with others in the effort.....
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:51 am

EgoMagickian wrote:including the "cash cows" of licensure


I would be thrilled to see licensure done away with, but let's see things for what they are and not just the way we want to see them.

Licensure is not a big cash cow for the gov't. Like most gov't expenditures, it is about building an empire for dopey bureaucrats at the tax payers expense.

Take Wash DC for instance. The licensing fee is $276 per year. They have less than 800 MTs licensed, total income approx $200k, but really it's $100k since it is a two year license. The City's Board of Massage Therapy has 3 fulltime government employees and a PT city attorney advisor. Do you really think WDC makes any money licensing MTs?

And it's not about lining the pockets of CEU providers either. There is one school in the city, which offers a few dozen courses over the course of the year.

VA is not much better. The VA massage certification is not required in every city or county in the state, so not every body worker gets the state certification.

Nonetheless, I look forward to posts from Ego and Holley supporting the deregulation of other industries...
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby EgoMagickian on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:56 am

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:Licensure is not a big cash cow for the gov't. Like most gov't expenditures, it is about building an empire for dopey bureaucrats at the tax payers expense.


Thanks for that perspective, I think that's a better criticism of licensure in terms of govt. I think the "cash cow" bit is really about the fees that go to NCBTMB.

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:And it's not about lining the pockets of CEU providers either. There is one school in the city, which offers a few dozen courses over the course of the year.


You seem to point out only whose pockets it's not lining. Meanwhile, someone is getting paid both by those providers to be "approved" and by the folks taking those classes for the privilege of having the CEUs count. I've seen the same business model elsewhere, of connecting buyers and sellers and they both pay you for your part in it, only usually the party getting paid is actually adding value.

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:Nonetheless, I look forward to posts from Ego and Holley supporting the deregulation of other industries...


Just can't resist a good jab, can you?
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:06 am

EgoMagickian wrote:You seem to point out only whose pockets it's not lining.


Only because you point to them as being beneficiaries when clearly they are not. Winnowing the alleged herd of cash cows....

EgoMagickian wrote:Meanwhile, someone is getting paid both by those providers to be "approved" and by the folks taking those classes for the privilege of having the CEUs count. I've seen the same business model elsewhere, of connecting buyers and sellers and they both pay you for your part in it, only usually the party getting paid is actually adding value.


Again, not huge numbers if you do the analysis. Not sure why all the finger pointing of greed.

EgoMagickian wrote:Just can't resist a good jab, can you?


No, can't resist pointing out rank hypocrisy that weakens your arguments. "Regulations GOOD, except when they apply to me and my industry." Typical unprincipled NIMBY stand.
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby EgoMagickian on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:36 am

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:
EgoMagickian wrote:You seem to point out only whose pockets it's not lining.


Only because you point to them as being beneficiaries when clearly they are not. Winnowing the alleged herd of cash cows....


Oh do tell... show me where I or the article author do this. When I go back and read the article, it seems to be saying more or less what you yourself said. Your super power is an ability to be contrary even with people you agree with.

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:Again, not huge numbers if you do the analysis. Not sure why all the finger pointing of greed.


So your argument is that the profits involved aren't big enough to justify our ire?

RelaxandRejuvenate wrote:
EgoMagickian wrote:Just can't resist a good jab, can you?


No, can't resist pointing out rank hypocrisy that weakens your arguments. "Regulations GOOD, except when they apply to me and my industry." Typical unprincipled NIMBY stand.


And where do you get that from? You have an overly-simplistic imagining about my stances... built of nothing more than straw.
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby JasonE on Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:18 pm

What respect I had for Ralph has been seriously undermined by this article. It is an intellectually lazy and dishonest screed against regulation that is charged with emotion and void of supporting citations.

If Ralph did his homework and a bit of math, he would realize that his assumptions are incorrect and that his arguments are largely baseless. This article fails to "call out" anything... It's just the ranting of an angry man who has taken a side based on ideology instead of studying the verifiable facts and then reaching a rational conclusion.
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby EgoMagickian on Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:15 pm

JasonE wrote:What respect I had for Ralph has been seriously undermined by this article. It is an intellectually lazy and dishonest screed against regulation that is charged with emotion and void of supporting citations.

If Ralph did his homework and a bit of math, he would realize that his assumptions are incorrect and that his arguments are largely baseless. This article fails to "call out" anything... It's just the ranting of an angry man who has taken a side based on ideology instead of studying the verifiable facts and then reaching a rational conclusion.


I'm of course very curious about your assertions here... would you list some of those incorrect assumptions and draw out for us how you reach a different conclusion?
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:35 am

EgoMagickian wrote:I'm of course very curious about your assertions here... would you list some of those incorrect assumptions and draw out for us how you reach a different conclusion?


It is always the profession(s) going to the legislature begging for a government-granted monopoly to practice their discipline without competition. I am sure ther child care and senior care industries would beg to differ.

The "public safety" line justifies regulation and allows government to expand (revenue and staff) and the profession to control entry into the field while mandating professional development (cash flow).
As I pointed out before, regulation is rarely a cash cow.

Are some people being injured by massage therapists? Of course. However, there is virtually no documentation of massage related injuries. So the lack of documentation of something he acknowledges exist is sufficient reason to say it does not exist?!?!??!?! If a tree falls on a client during a massage, but both MT and client are killed, so no one can document they heard it, did the tree really fall and kill them?
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:39 am

EgoMagickian wrote:So your argument is that the profits involved aren't big enough to justify our ire?


Our, Kemosabe? Speak for yourself.

I am all in favor of profits, big or small, including those "outlandish" margins of sole practitioners. I saw a post on hear from a woman who only pays $125 a month rent and charges $70 an hour. That works out to about 80% profit margin. Someone call the federal profit police before OUR ire turns into an angry mob.
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby riversinger on Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:30 pm

R&R - Outlandish profits ??? Really??? As sole practitioners we're not just sitting behind a desk and just setting up appointments for another person to do the physical labor involved in performing a session. We have to wear as many hats to run a business & more than the average executive has to do, without making the large or small profits on someone elses hard work.

Just because someone is incredibly fortunate enough to only pay $125.00 per month doesn't mean she should charge her per hour rate at a bargain basement price.
Those two things don't need to be related. She's fully entitled to charge what she can for her work. And of course there is always the additional overhead expenses, as you well know, from advertising to whatever her electricity/heat or a/c expenses are, plus what she is paying out for supplies to run her business. Then there's the matter of her costs for all her training, and the value she is offering based on however many years of experience she has behind her too.
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Re: Great article calling out licensing issues

Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:11 am

YOu skipped the part where I said everyone is entitled to their profits, outrageous or not, including SPs. More power to you!

riversinger wrote: She's fully entitled to charge what she can for her work.


Thanks for making my point. Everyone is entitled to charge and earn whatever they can -- be they sole practitioners, CEU providers, CEU "certifiers" or people sitting at a desk making large or small profits off someone else's work.

No outrage necessary.
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