Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

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cabwy
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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by cabwy » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:37 pm

I returned home yesterday from my week long class with the Klose Training Center (Boulder Colorado) All I can say is wow! What a class!
Pueppi, your advice to go into the class rested was very helpful.. I can't say that I was rested.. but made sure to get into bed early after I arrived at the hotel. There was no gentle indoctrination into the course and by the second day many of us were feeling overwhelmed.. then it all began to come together by evening of the third day and continued to get a bit easier with each passing day.
I want to give my impressions and comparisons to the chikly courses, but right now I need sleep! It was a whirlwind week and returning to work today was hard.

I will give my feedback within the next couple of days.. I will say this, the class was worth taking and I am really excited about incorporating this form of MLD into my practice.
Carol

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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by cabwy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:31 pm

This is my update on the Klose Training's MLD course, teaching the Vodder Method. I pretty much agree with Pueppi's impressions and opinions. As I posted earlier, I have completed LDT 1 and 2 through Bruno Chikly's Lymph Drainage course. Both Chickly and Klose offer a very detailed anatomy and physiology lecture.. I think the main difference with the Klose course was that I knew I would be required to take a written test at the end of the course.. that in of itself made it more intense and there was homework in the evenings that made me take it much more seriously. Thankfully Pueppi had mentioned the homework and intensity of the class so I was prepared by stocking my hotel fridge and not needing to go out nightly for dinner.
Both courses were very organized and professional in their presentations, the one thing that immediately became clear was that Klose wasn't trying to sell products related to the field. They had nice sized and very detailed lymph posters for us to take home, a nice binder with manuals and a lot of detailed information inside. The study material was really good, too. On each students table there sat the manual with a smaller anatomy poster included inside for quick reference and a highlighting pen and ink pen.. they really went above and beyond on their course and it showed.
Chikly, on the other hand, I had to immediately buy an expensive hard bound book and during the breaks you walked out into the hallway to a lot of items for sale. Now, this was when it was still through the Upledger Institute so maybe that has changed. At the time it didn't seem so bad, but now that I have seen the Klose way, it seems more genuinely based on giving you the best in your education materials. Klose also gave us a DVD that shows the techniques and hand placements for easy referral. Chikly did not, and it's impossible to remember all of the unique hand placments.
I am so glad that I made the switch, it's the hardest continuing ed course that I've taken since becoming a massage therapist and it feels great to be fully certified now!!
I am not knocking Chikly, there are techniques that I will keep from his training.. especially the neck sequence. I think it's easier on my body. It's just a long and winding road to get to the end of Chikly's training.

I liked that after an intense week of long class days, homework and hands on practice that I was able to test and be certified. I was feeling pressured with the Chikly method that required multiple classes and the locations featured for the advanced courses were never in my area. The classes were very good, but in the end I must say that I really liked the methodical techniques that the Klose (Vodder) method incorporates into a session. I like that I learned Chily's mapping and will probably still use it, but the Vodder method seems to get you down to business more efficiently and as we all know, an hour session slips by very quickly. Hopefully this will helps anyone else who is debating MLD/LDT and please know that I am not putting down either method, it's a subjective decision as to how each of us wants to pursue this training.

I returned home exhausted,, it was a tough week. After two days in class, I felt overwhelmed, but by the end of the third day I was bouncing back, I have used at least 10- 15 minutes of the MLD techniques with every client that I've seen since. It is a modality that you need to use it or lose it, in my opinion.
Carol

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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by pueppi » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:28 am

cabwy wrote:I have used at least 10- 15 minutes of the MLD techniques with every client that I've seen since. It is a modality that you need to use it or lose it, in my opinion.
cabwy,

Are you still using this work on most of your clients? If so, have you noticed things like: if you have gotten "better", "faster", "smoother" with the work or if it just seems to be the same? And, have you made any changes as to how you incorporate the work in your sessions?

-=-

I haven't heavily used the work in my practice, and really still feel like I need the extra Chikly course to round out the training I learned with Klose. Don't get me wrong, I think the course was exceptional, but there is just something that is missing. I have never found a comfortable way to practice MLD, and that translates into my limiting the work to specific clients with noticible lymphatic issues going on.

I still haven't even made time to get the MLD work from other practitioners (although I tried about 3 times to make an appointment with one therapist, but our schedules never jived).

So far I have been unable to take the Chickly class. I should have when it was being taught in my area, but that ship has sailed and now it seems I will have to travel. I plan to shoot for it in 2017.

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10/14/15: edit for typo
Last edited by pueppi on Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

cabwy
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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by cabwy » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:27 pm

Hi Pueppi
Good to hear from you!!
Yes, I use the MLD techniques frequently and have several new clients with serious issues and the MLD techniques really work for them.
I think the main issue is trying to do a full body session right out of the chute. I do better working in the areas that need decongested and then use other light strokes that complement MLD.
I find that some of Chikly's strokes and sequences are easier on my body. But when I am facing someone who has lymphedema and needs fluid rerouted I am very comforted by the clinical and specific strokes and techniques to follow.

I have a client in his mid 30's suffering from Lymedema in his lower left quadrant. He had advanced melanoma on his leg, had spread to his inguinal nodes to they had to remove several and now he will need to wear compression garments and have MLD for the rest of his life. He goes to a PT clinic but uses me occasionally when he can't get an appt when needed with the PT. I did the best that I could and he said my techniques are very familiar to what the PT does and that gave me such confidence.
I have two clients with chronic Lymes, so they get the full body MLD.
Several clients have had mastectomies and just need the full MLD protocol and precautions used in their massage sessions.

Here's the interesting part.. :D
I am 3 weeks post op from a total hip replacement!! And let me tell you, there is a lot of swelling involved. The MLD has helped me immensely. I began the work on myself immediately out of recovery.
One of the easiest to do was the deep abdominal breathing and abdominal work. After that I could go to the inguinal and upper leg.
I wish we lived closer to one another. It would be fun to work together on the techniques.
Chikly is good. the only issue I have with them is you will need to do the first two levels to really get the gist of what it's all about.
I hope this helps!!
Carol

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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by pueppi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 am

cabwy (Carol),

It helps immensely. And, though this is obviously an extremely late reply, I hope your hip healed well.

I have been doing some post-surgical work for a client who had cosmetic surgery and replacement of a migrating breast implant, recently. Although the first MLD session (2 weeks after surgery didn't make much of a difference, if any), she trusted me and came back for a second session. Of course, she waited a little over a week, so I thought we would have to start from scratch on seeing improvement. But, amazingly enough, the second session made a big difference in swelling, so she came back for a third session 3 days later, and will return for a fourth session four days from the third. :)


As a side note, I located this great thread for anyone who may be interested in transitioning their regular practice to a specialized one (not me right now, but that doesn't mean I can't post it for someone else!):
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

pueppi
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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by pueppi » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:45 am

I realize this thread is from 2012, but when I find good info, I like to add it.

I just found out today:
“Chikly was not part of Upledger.

Chikly, Upledger, Barral, D’Ambrogio, and some others are all part of IAHE, the International Alliance of Healthcare Educators.

Bruno Chikly left IAHE about five or so years ago, so he is no longer listed on the website. He’s totally independent of that group now.”
And, another discussion also stated more of what I have been thinking all along, though I still have not created an opportunity for myself to get the Chikly work in yet:
“There’s so much other stuff you can learn from Chikly which is not covered by other schools. However, Chikly training doesn’t cover some of what the Vodder style schools cover-like cancer and lymphedema. The two blend together perfectly to make a whole picture.”
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, leading to the most amazing view. May your rivers flow without end, meandering through valleys tinkling with bells...
Houston Massage Therapy - Advanced Massage Therapy - Lucas & Lucas, LLC

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Re: Chikly Method (LDT) / Vodder Technique (MLD)

Post by jdcan » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:39 am

:smt006

Thanks for posting pueppi

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