A professional rant!

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Postby Gaspen on Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:14 pm

Very wise, Bliss (I am folding my hands together and respectfully bowing to your most bright wisdom Bliss-san -- it's kinda late). Yeah, there was a bit of 'revenge' speaking. Although to be fair to myself, once the guy (not really a therapist IMO), I sent him an email. Basically saying that what he did was unethical and that if he did again, I would report him not only to Craigslist but also to the state's licensing board.

A large part of me is happy that I did the final version of the banner. In a way, I think whomever was meant to see it (at this time), saw it. I can't reach every person that he sees or will see in the future, but maybe he'll be dealing with the consequences of his actions for a while until he's learned whatever it was that he was meant to learn. Sorry for the rambling...but it's late (oh, yeah, (I already said that). Say 'Good night, Graci'.
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Postby cstbrian on Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:33 am

Blisss wrote:As far as reporting this therapist to the licensing board or AMTA, I just suggest you look at your motivation.


Bliss wrote:Then, if you want to track & report unlicensed therapists, it's a decision based on your deep beliefs, rather than a targeted act of revenge.



For me this is not about revenge. My motivation is based on protecting our profession and the associations we are members of as well as protecting the consumer. There is also a little piece of motivation about ensuring that male practitioners are acting in an ethical and legal manner. Let me break it down a bit.

First about the professional associations. As a member of the ABMP I am held to a certain standard of professionalism in my practice. All members are given the code of ethics and guidelines for running a practice. My hope is that as ABMP markets massage/bodywork it becomes a known symbol for professionalism and clients will trust the level of safety and comfort they will receive from an ABMP therapist. Some clients already know about ABMP and what it stands for. By posting that he is an ABMP member (which he is not) his practice and his actions reflect on the association. The same could be said for the AMTA.

Also, on a more simple note, why is it ok for him to illegally post these logos but not ok for me to inform the ABMP about this? How is that revenge or negatively motivated?

The consumer part is very important to me as well. Because this guy is not bound by any massage laws, ethics, or organizations, what is the experience of the client? How clean is this guys space? Does he know about universal precautions? What kind of training does he have? Does he know indications and contraindications?

What happens when clients go to him and get injured or have a horrible experience? Or get a rash a few days later, or a cold/flu? I understand it is their choice to go to this person, but they are unable to make an informed decision based on the fact that this guy has lied and mis-represented himself. So, a client has a horrible experience and tells all his/her friends and family how awful massage is; how it wasn't relaxing; how it actually hurt; how they got really sick. In their minds, he is a licensed, professional health care provider. Why would they recommend or try massage again?


Now the male therapist part. As male therapists I believe we have to work a little bit harder to be recognized as professional, competent, non-sexual bodyworkers both in our respective areas and still within the massage profession. When someone like this guy comes along and just opens shop without the proper licensure, and insurance (and possibly without the proper training) there is a greater potential for this guy to 'do harm' to clients or to act in a way that is not bound by any laws as he is not licensed. However, if anything were to go wrong, the media would cover this story about the male massage therapist who did x,y,z ....

In my mind he is acting illegally by accepting money for a service that needs licensure and regulation by the state of Illinois. If it doesn't matter if someone practices massage without a license or insurance, why bother having laws in place?

If we all turned and looked the other way who would stand up for our profession and say: 'this isn't right, we have standards in this field that everyone needs to adhere to and uphold. This person is not a professional massage therapist.'


(I have to run. No time to edit or re-read right now. I'll re-check later.)
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Postby Gaspen on Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:25 am

Thank you, Brian. Although in my above list-oriented post, I had all the points you mentioned, you expressed my concerns and reasons behind my actions.
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Postby makingachange on Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:12 am

cstbrian wrote:
Blisss wrote:As far as reporting this therapist to the licensing board or AMTA, I just suggest you look at your motivation.


Bliss wrote:Then, if you want to track & report unlicensed therapists, it's a decision based on your deep beliefs, rather than a targeted act of revenge.



For me this is not about revenge. My motivation is based on protecting our profession and the associations we are members of as well as protecting the consumer. There is also a little piece of motivation about ensuring that male practitioners are acting in an ethical and legal manner. Let me break it down a bit.

First about the professional associations. As a member of the ABMP I am held to a certain standard of professionalism in my practice. All members are given the code of ethics and guidelines for running a practice. My hope is that as ABMP markets massage/bodywork it becomes a known symbol for professionalism and clients will trust the level of safety and comfort they will receive from an ABMP therapist. Some clients already know about ABMP and what it stands for. By posting that he is an ABMP member (which he is not) his practice and his actions reflect on the association. The same could be said for the AMTA.

Also, on a more simple note, why is it ok for him to illegally post these logos but not ok for me to inform the ABMP about this? How is that revenge or negatively motivated?

The consumer part is very important to me as well. Because this guy is not bound by any massage laws, ethics, or organizations, what is the experience of the client? How clean is this guys space? Does he know about universal precautions? What kind of training does he have? Does he know indications and contraindications?

What happens when clients go to him and get injured or have a horrible experience? Or get a rash a few days later, or a cold/flu? I understand it is their choice to go to this person, but they are unable to make an informed decision based on the fact that this guy has lied and mis-represented himself. So, a client has a horrible experience and tells all his/her friends and family how awful massage is; how it wasn't relaxing; how it actually hurt; how they got really sick. In their minds, he is a licensed, professional health care provider. Why would they recommend or try massage again?

...

If we all turned and looked the other way who would stand up for our profession and say: 'this isn't right, we have standards in this field that everyone needs to adhere to and uphold. This person is not a professional massage therapist.'




i completely agree. i want to gack everytime i think about my mother registering with the vice squad before there was licensure in my state. if we do not protect the licensing standards, ethics, education, all of it - if we do not protect it then it means nothing.
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Postby StressSolutions on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:12 am

My wife is part of a non profit group, IAAP, for the industry formerly known as secretaries.

They used a poem that was listed as author unkown on a website or in a brochure or something. The author contacted them and demanded a huge payment for using it. I understand why she'd want payment, but why isn't she out there making sure that it is not marked author unkown.

I also could understand a huge payment if the user was a for profit corp making money off this. It hurt this group for a long time, financially. I imagine that everyone learned a lesson. :?
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Postby riversinger on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 pm

First of all Gaspen, you have every right to rant about the violation of this person, from stealing your pic, content, banner & all. The fact the he has a major sense of it being okay to swipe whatever he pleases from everyone is evident.

He is purposely presenting himself as a member of professional MT organizations, and being a professional practitioner is potentially putting his clients in danger. (medically & perhaps otherwise) Personally, I'd have no problem reporting him.

This matter isn't simply about wanting to get even for what he did, but rather protecting the public. Granted clients may never return to him, as he may not give a good treatment, therefore he won't be able to stay in business anyway. But he may also be attempting to appear as a professional to lure people into a private office space to do as he pleases to them, or simply because he wants to see them sans clothing.

As to stolen content text, I've had it happen to me as well.
I had created a great brochure, which I was quite proud of.

After meeting a woman who does great professional shiatsu work, but needed to get her practice off the ground,
I suggested she might want to consider doing a brochure for herself as well. When she put one together it was really poorly done, so I offered to help her redo it (big mistake on my part).

I showed her my brochure and gave her a few others to review and pointed out the various formats, fonts, etc. and gave her the name of the person I had used to help get mine put together. When the shiatsu woman called the person I referred her to, not only did she want to use my chosen font & format, & the same exact paper as well, :shock: She also wanted to use more than 3/4 of my content.

She finally used another person to have her new brochure done & when I saw what she had done I was livid. It was
like someone simply letting themselves into your home, without you being there. And she didn't think there was anything wrong with it. :shock: When I cooled off enough, I was able to speak with her about it & point out why I upset & she did make a number of changes in her reprinted brochure.

It can feel like even more of a violation when someone you actually know & have been friendly & helpful toward pulls something like this. When a stranger does it, without any ethics you can almost accept it easier. But however, this type of thing happens it's not pleasant. Eventually it does catch up to the guilty party in the end. (or at least you can hope it does)
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Postby RelaxandRejuvenate on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:27 pm

It would probably be a thin arguement that not reporting unlicensed activity -- a misdemeanor or felony in IL - would constitute aiding and abetting the commission of same.

But IL is pretty severe against violators of the protected title Massage Therapist

(225 ILCS 57/90)

(b) If, after January 1, 2005, any person practices as a massage therapist or holds himself or herself out as a massage therapist without being licensed under the provisions of this Act, then the Director, any licensed massage therapist, any interested party, or any person injured thereby may petition for relief as provided in subsection (a) of this Section or may apply to the circuit court of the county in which the violation or some part thereof occurred, or in which the person complained of has his or her principal place of business or resides, to prevent the violation. The court has jurisdiction to enforce obedience by injunction or by other process restricting the person complained of from further violation and enjoining upon him or her obedience.



(225 ILCS 57/165)



(225 ILCS 57/50)
Sec. 50. Advertising. It is a misdemeanor for any person, organization, or corporation to advertise massage services unless the person providing the service holds a valid license under this Act, except for those excluded licensed professionals who are allowed to include massage in their scope of practice. A massage therapist may not advertise unless he or she has a current license issued by this State. "Advertise" as used in this Section includes, but is not limited to, the issuance of any card, sign, or device to any person; the causing, permitting, or allowing of any sign or marking on or in any building, vehicle, or structure; advertising in any newspaper or magazine; any listing or advertising in any directory under a classification or heading that includes the words "massage", "massage therapist", "therapeutic massage", or "massage therapeutic"; or commercials broadcast by any means.

Sec. 165. Unlicensed practice; violation; civil penalty.
(a) Any person who practices, offers to practice, attempts to practice, or holds himself or herself out to practice massage therapy or as a massage therapist without being licensed under this Act shall, in addition to any other penalty provided by law, pay a civil penalty to the Department in an amount not to exceed $5,000 for each offense as determined by the Department. The civil penalty shall be assessed by the Department after a hearing is held in accordance with the provisions set forth in this Act regarding the provision of a hearing for the discipline of a licensee.
(b) The Department has the authority and power to investigate any unlicensed activity.
(c) The civil penalty shall be paid within 60 days after the effective date of the order imposing the civil penalty. The order shall constitute a judgment and may be filed and execution had thereon in the same manner as any judgment from any court of record.
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Postby BJB-LMP on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:39 pm

StressSolutions wrote:My wife is part of a non profit group, IAAP, for the industry formerly known as secretaries. They used a poem that was listed as author unkown on a website or in a brochure or something. The author contacted them and demanded a huge payment for using it. I understand why she'd want payment, but why isn't she out there making sure that it is not marked author unkown.
Well -- isn't that what she was doing? She checked (possibly on a regular basis) for unauthorized reproductions of her work -- and found some.
I also could understand a huge payment if the user was a for profit corp making money off this.
I sympathize with your wife's group, Mick, I really do. But the point isn't that someone else is or isn't making money off the artist's work (although it would have been an even bigger problem if they had). The point is that the artist herself is the one who has the legal right to control where her work is copied. Unfortunately for your wife's group (and I have no doubt that they had only honest intentions), it is absolutely the responsibility of anyone who copies a work, to find out who owns the rights to that work before using it -- or end up paying if payment is demanded after the fact.
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Postby BJB-LMP on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:44 pm

Wanted to add that I would also take aggressive measures to expose, stop, and punish theft of my material on the web. I would do so in a way that preserved my professional image (so any "This guy's a thief!" type wording would be out for me). Actions taken to expose and shut down an illegal operator who is using the language of my profession to both defraud the public and demean my profession -- yeah, I'd probably engage in those too. I don't go around hunting for illegally-practicing individuals. But expose your illegal activities to me by stealing from me at the same time -- yeah, I haven't got the time of day (this week anyway) to go compassionately sussing out your motives and finding a way to rationalize why I have to let you go your way in peace while making an illegal mockery of my profession.
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Postby BJB-LMP on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:51 pm

Oh and also -- everybody go run their websites through www.copyscape.com if you'd like to make sure your content isn't being used by someone else.
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Postby Gaspen on Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:50 pm

I thought I already posted this but anywho:

Thanks for the post, Beccy. Way cool!
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Postby Breathe on Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:20 pm

Yes, I've had copy lifted from my site, PAGES of it, word for word. Just found another one yesterday.

Sadly, (and I'm going to put this in giant letters) SOME OF THE PLAGIARIST THIEVES HAVE THEN COME ON BWOL AND POSTED THEIR SITES FOR REVIEW!!! Yes, I have found plagiarists here. Yes, it makes me furious when I think of the many many many hours I worked wordsmithing my site, only to have some lazy jerk come and steal it. And yes I realize that one of the lazy jerks here might read this and recognize themselves. And YES I AM CALLING YOU A PLAGIARIST THIEVING LAZY JERK because what you really are is not allowed on this forum.

I also have someone hotlinking one of my images, the ONLY one I did not take myself, for which I asked permission and give an artist credit on my site. I have no idea where this image is being hotlinked, but it pulls hundreds of dl's a day. Amazingly I've not yet ever had a denial of service situation due to the bandwidth usage.

So. It looks like yet again, I will be sending letters and seeking legal advice. If it were as easy as reporting an illegal, unlicensed therapist, you bet your @ss I would do it in a second. Look, like BJB, I'm not going to go around looking for unlicensed people to turn into the massage board and/or police, but if you steal from me, and ESPECIALLY if you FLAUNT THE THEFT, you betcha I'm gonna do something about it. :smt013
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Postby mtnlionz on Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:11 pm

I'm furious, too. I just ran my website through that site that Beccy suggested, and one of my colleagues in my specialty lifted LOADS of original text off of my site. Ugh, what are people thinking? Lazy lack of ethics.
So I wrote her a letter, copy and pasting the texts from both sites for clear comparison and "You did not request my permission to use my descriptive text. I’m pleased that you find it useful and appealing, but it is not for your use. Please remove my text from your site and explore your own wording that is descriptive of your process and experience with [specific modality], as I have." If she does not comply, I will file a grievance inside of the organization we both belong to. I've done it before, it's a PITA, but I'll do it again if I need to.
Tiresome, really.
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Re: A professional rant!

Postby pueppi on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:36 am

I had a new therapist/doctor in town, copy my website reflexology page word for word. The way I found out was through someone posting a request on my Facebook Business page, that they were looking for the hours of my business.

I clicked on the person and then clicked on her website. And, there was all of this information about my office on her site. I sent her a brief cease and desist e-mail and much to my surprise she contacted me, apologized and explained that she had out-sourced her website-build to an individual. She was embarassed and contacted them immediately to get rid of the copied information.

A better ending to this story, is that I had been looking for a Naturopathic Doctor for a family member, and so we went and had a coffee/tea/hot chocolate together, filled each other in on our practices, and two years later, she is still my family member's ND.

Sometimes good things happen. :)


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02/18/18: edited for additional descriptor and typo.
Last edited by pueppi on Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Sometime good things happen !

Postby holley on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:36 pm

What a delightful observation thereby converting a rant to a healing !
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