What is the difference

MFR practitioners discuss business and marketing issues directly related to your specialized field. Products and Ethics may also be discussed - with expansion of these forums available upon request, as they grow.

Moderators: MarionFM, WaltFritz

What is the difference

Postby palpable on Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:08 pm

Could someone please explain to me- as far as JFB MFR goes- what is the difference between an advanced practitioner vs. an intermediate practitioner, etc.

How many seminars or how many sessions must one do in order to be certified as an advanced MFR practitioner? A novice? Intermediate?

Thanks much.
Move on as quickly as you can to people who get you and what you do. -Robert Chute
User avatar
palpable
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:58 pm
Location: northeast u.s.

advanced vs. intermediate practitioner

Postby WaltFritz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:42 pm

Directly from the MFR website:

Novice:
Requirement
-Myofascial Release I

Optional Seminars
Fascial-Pelvis Myofascial Release OR
Myofascial Mobilization Workshop OR
Pediatric Myofascial Release OR
Myofascial Healing Seminar

Intermediate:
Myofascial Release I
Fascial-Pelvis Myofascial Release
Myofascial Unwinding
Myofascial Release II
Cervical Thoracic Myofascial

Advanced-Intermediate:
Myofascial Release I
Fascial-Pelvis Myofascial Release
Myofascial Unwinding
Myofascial Release II
Cervical Thoracic Myofascial
Skill Enhancement Seminar
Advanced Unwinding
At least one year of experience using MFR exclusively

Advanced:
Myofascial Release I
Fascial-Pelvis Myofascial Release
Myofascial Unwinding
Myofascial Release II
Cervical Thoracic Myofascial
Skill Enhancement Seminar
Advanced Unwinding
Therapy for the Therapist
Myofascial Release III
At least three years of experience using MFR exclusively

These are only the minimum criteria one must meet in order to call themselves such when buying a listing on the MFR Therapist directory. There is no certification process.
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby StressSolutions on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:36 pm

Hey, no where does it say Rebounding. Margi did some rebounding on me the other day and it was wonderful!
StressSolutions
 

Postby WaltFritz on Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:51 pm

Mick,

Must be an omission on the MFR site, though Rebounding is a prerequisite for MFR3. Rebounding creates quite a nice, energetic buzz, doesn't it?
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby palpable on Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:38 am

Thanks, Walt. I couldn't seem to find that anywhere on the site. :smt102
Move on as quickly as you can to people who get you and what you do. -Robert Chute
User avatar
palpable
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:58 pm
Location: northeast u.s.

Postby maestra on Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:00 am

I have a question I'd like to direct towards Walt or some of the JFB MFR trained practitioners, but am interested in what johnnymac and some of the Robert King MFR trained practitioners have to say about this as well...

I work in a spa. I have taken several Robert King MFR CE courses... however, to my knowledge, an individual can't take a set number of these courses, pay a fee and say they are certified in myofascial release.

And as far as I've been able to tell, though there are many JFB MFR classes being offered... John Barnes does not offer a "certification" in MFR either.

Here's why I ask. Since I've expressed my intention to attend MFR I with JFB in the spring, I've been getting a lot of resistance from my employer. My employer loves my deep work when I work on her... and her daughter who is the spa manager loves it when I use MFR on her, but they do not want me using MFR on clients at the spa. They say, because I am not "certified" in it.

Through my research on the web, I've found that there are a couple places that do "certify" you in MFR, honestly, they're not as well known as John Barnes or Bob King IMO!

The spa owner told me that she feels there should be some kind of "test" that we have some sort of proficiency in the technique. Similar to a "state board" or our "National Certification." :roll: She gives me the impression they won't offer clients sessions which include MFR until I would have such certification. :roll:

To me this seems ridiculous, as most Continuing Education providers don't offer a "certification" as a certain kind of therapist... the notable exceptions being Upledger for CST or perhaps Vodder's MLD.

But to me that sort of thing is really rare in the business. And at that rate I should not be doing 9/10 of the services they have me doing at the spa! :?

I wanted to tell her that if I had been able to be "certified" the way she wants me "certified" in MFR before she'll let me market myself as such...
She'd never be able to afford me!!! :lol:

I am determined to take JFB's MFR I in the spring. I need to do it, to keep up my enthusiasm, my passion for my work... I've been at this 10 years, I don't want to burn out! (I'll take MFR I, even knowing I may never get to use it at work... but I'll take it if and use it only on my friends & family if I must! But I'd really like the spa owner & her manager daughter to understand that my getting additional training in MFR is a good thing for the spa!)

Seriously, I need a voice of reason here... Can somebody help me out?
“Try to be like the turtle -- at ease in your own shell” - Bill Copeland
User avatar
maestra
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3886
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:24 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby Rose of Sharon on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:28 am

maestra wrote:
And at that rate I should not be doing 9/10 of the services they have me doing at the spa! :?

I wanted to tell her that if I had been able to be "certified" the way she wants me "certified" in MFR before she'll let me market myself as such...
She'd never be able to afford me!!! :lol:



Jumping in when I am *not* an MFR practitioner..... these two things are short and to the point. Can you say this to your employer. NOBODY here is certified in __________, but you have us doing it. Which way is it going to be? Certification is required before services can be performed, or learn a modality and offer it?

Is she afraid of having new clients?
:roll:
Sharon
Rose of Sharon
Retired Site Admin
 
Posts: 3704
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:03 pm
Location: South Central WI

Postby BJB-LMP on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:43 am

Give her a short session after your first class and see what she says...
-Beccy
User avatar
BJB-LMP
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:37 am
Location: Pacific NW

Postby WaltFritz on Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:19 pm

You said that, of the companies that will certify you in MFR, none of them is as well known as Barnes or King, the more important thing is are any of them up to the caliber? I've know little about King's work, so I'll stick with Barnes. What you will receive is a top notch teaching and experiential learning experience. My caseload is full, practicing 100% MFR and all without certification in it. To me, it is the work that matters, not the paper.

I agree with Rose, is everything that any of the therapists at your spa perform certified? If not, why the prejudice?
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby StressSolutions on Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:31 pm

There is sort of a test, called the Skills Enhancement Seminar, SES is the acronym. You go to Sedona or PA and work with the therapists, sometimes John, they evaluate your skills, techniques and help correct them.

So I've been told, have not gone yet. Bet Walt has!
StressSolutions
 

Postby WaltFritz on Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:29 pm

Hey Mick,

SES is not a test at all, rather a hands-on week of treating side by side with John's therapists and, at times, with John. Good learning opportunity.
Walt Fritz, PT Pain Relief Center, Rochester, NY
http://www.myofascialresource.com
For therapists: MFRmail Newsletter (patient focused newsletter also available)
Foundations in Myofascial Release Seminars
Myofascial Release Mentoring Program
User avatar
WaltFritz
Moderator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:14 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby maestra on Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:00 pm

My boss said, "You wouldn't want to be called a Practitioner, would you?!"

"Why, actually, YES!" :lol:

:roll:

I don't understand the prejudice Walt...

I am sort of getting the impression they don't want me to take it as in a spa environment they (employers) want all therapists to be "interchangeable"... little carbon copies of one another.
“Try to be like the turtle -- at ease in your own shell” - Bill Copeland
User avatar
maestra
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3886
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:24 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby mtnlionz on Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:50 am

I am sort of getting the impression they don't want me to take it as in a spa environment they (employers) want all therapists to be "interchangeable"... little carbon copies of one another.

Ah. There you may have it. Spas will be spas...
I totally hear your commitment to the Barnes class. It may be what moves you in your own direction, toward your own practice in time. Do what makes your heart sing!
I remember once a long time ago I got all enamored with my method of choice (still in it , 18 years later). I was working for a chiropractor as an IC. He caught wind of how I was working--stepping out of the more traditional understanding of massage, and asked me not to do it or talk about it with his patients. The work was changing my life and I was getting beautiful results with clients and decided it was not in my best interest to work somewhere that I had to conform to a particular standard to make the owner comfortable. So that was the end of that position.

There are some really special styles out there, and I know Barnes MFR is one of them, that are cutting edge and so very inspiring to the practitioner.
This just may be the road to your individuality and independence.
mtnlionz
Registered Member
 
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:34 pm

Postby palpable on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:19 am

I am assuming you are not *certified* in deep tissue or swedish, so you won't be offering those? :lol:

I agree with the others, learn what you want and take the classes you want, and if you can use it at work great. If not, you have advanced your own knowledge and skills, and you will benefit from that- even if your employer will not.
Move on as quickly as you can to people who get you and what you do. -Robert Chute
User avatar
palpable
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:58 pm
Location: northeast u.s.

Postby biminyrd on Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:25 am

When you finish MFR 1 you will have a "certificate" of completion with your name on it.

I worked in spas for 6 years, and in the course of my massage would use many of the techniques I learned in my John Barnes courses. I would typically start with a cross hand release before I got lotion/cream/oil on my hands. Then wipe my hands off to do an arm pull, and after using my massage techniqes for the remainer of their body, finish with some of the nice cervical and cranio sacral techniqes. If I had a client that was clearly in some kind of pain, I would offer to them on the spot the different treatment option. Not one of the spas I worked in offered MFR as a treatment option, but it kept my clients coming back to see me. Of course I did not recieve more money for this treatment, but I did get larger tips sometimes and had lots of people to practice my techniques with.
good luck, and don't let your boss deter you from taking the class. It will help both you and your clients.

good luck,
aaron
biminyrd
Fresh Hands
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:34 am
Location: Greensboro, NC

Postby EgoMagickian on Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:58 pm

The spa owner told me that she feels there should be some kind of "test" that we have some sort of proficiency in the technique. Similar to a "state board" or our "National Certification."

That doesn't make sense. This must not be the real reason, or she's not very smart. Neither scenario is pretty.

Tell me, does your state board include a hands on competency demonstration? If so, that's one thing... but NCE doesn't prove anything other than memorization and test taking skills. So to compare the two is ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.
Last edited by EgoMagickian on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
EgoMagickian
Tech Admin
 
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:34 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Postby maestra on Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:53 pm

EgoMagickian wrote:That doesn't make sense. This must not be the real reason, or she's not very smart. Neither scenario is pretty.


I don't believe it's the real reason she was resistant either. I actually believe it was that whole everybody must be interchangeable issue. Mostly because I feel that if anybody was going to be differentiate themselves, I feel she wanted it to be her daughter (spa manager). She ended up getting pregnant after my last post... which definitely has affected my work load, I am way busier now. However, it was myself and another very experienced MT who wanted to step out of the "spa" box and offer something other than traditional spa fare.

When I returned from taking MFR1 this spring, they DID change their minds and add it to the menu, as well as adding the modality the other experienced MT wanted to offer. And while the other MT has had a few people ask to experience her modality over the summer, I've been seeing MFR become a regular part of my work each week at the spa. Within 3 months I had made back the $700 (cost of the course). (Though I did have hotel, meals, books, dvds, and other things I purchased that weekend as well.)

I feel pretty confident in saying that it was a great investment for me. Or is that a great investment IN Me?

It certainly has impressed my clients... as Aaron (biminyrd) mentioned, I have incorporated a few techniques into my swedish and deep tissue massages. I mention that I think they would benefit from it, offer to demonstrate it for a few minutes in their current massage... then suggest that when they book their next massage they book a MFR session if they enjoy the work I do in that few minutes.

The first client I recommended it to, booked a MFR session right away after my MFR1 course. She's been back about every 2 weeks, and has been singing my praises all over town. She is personally responsible for getting about 5 other people to try me. I have now become the "go to" person for shoulder work. :lol:

EgoMagickian wrote:Tell me, does your state board include a hands on competency demonstration?


No, it does not.
“Try to be like the turtle -- at ease in your own shell” - Bill Copeland
User avatar
maestra
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3886
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:24 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby EgoMagickian on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:22 pm

LOL interesting. I'm glad it worked out.

I know some people take a stand on their immediate reaction, and later go in the completely opposite direction after having time to consider it.

Was it like that, or how did the 180 shift in attitude happen? Did you demo the work or something?
User avatar
EgoMagickian
Tech Admin
 
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:34 am
Location: San Francisco, CA

Postby maestra on Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:52 pm

EgoMagickian wrote:
Was it like that, or how did the 180 shift in attitude happen? Did you demo the work or something?


Well, 2 MTs got pregnant... this limited what services they could do and how many services they could do.

I pointed out to the spa owner that if I got training in MFR, and concentrated my efforts on helping people in pain, it would leave more relaxing swedish work for the pregnant ones.

My personal opinion is that they realized how important getting this training was to me. They weren't paying for the CE... it was all coming out of my pocket, but their clients benefit from that training. And happy clients come back, and tell their friends, meaning more business for them, right?

They spend a lot of money on advertising... but really it's the work/results that get the client to return. And people say that it costs 6 times more to attract a new client than to bring back one you've already had walk in your door. And they also say that word of mouth is the best advertising, and in the case of the client I mentioned above, this has definitely been true.

I think the 180 came about because they feared that with 2 MTs pregnant and the 2 most experienced MTs unhappy with "fluff and buff" that they were going to have to change their stance or have to hire and train all new staff. :lol:

Yes, I dreaded it, but eventually I did demo the work on the owner... but that was actually just in the last few weeks. :lol: She didn't rave about it... but seemed much more accepting of what I do afterward and reported a slight improvement in her symptoms.

I am just glad that I didn't let their discouragement in the beginning keep me from pursuing what I wanted to do.
“Try to be like the turtle -- at ease in your own shell” - Bill Copeland
User avatar
maestra
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3886
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:24 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Postby EgoMagickian on Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:31 pm

I think the 180 came about because they feared... that they were going to have to change their stance or have to hire and train all new staff.

NICE! I have seen management not back down, preferring instead to deal with turnover. It (almost) always baffles me.

I am just glad that I didn't let their discouragement in the beginning keep me from pursuing what I wanted to do.

Amen to that! :-)
User avatar
EgoMagickian
Tech Admin
 
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 12:34 am
Location: San Francisco, CA


Return to MFR Business, Marketing, Products and Ethics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest